A Bipolar Mother talks about her experience with losing her children, the Courts & Mental Health Discrimination
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A Mum First and Foremost
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The Story:
This is a story of a Bipolar mother who has been in a custody battle over her three children due to her Bipolar. This is the result of my ex-husband’s application to the Court for an Sole Residency Order seeking an Order that he alone should look after the children with me only having supervised “contact” with them. The reason cited for his application is that I am “incapable” of looking after the children due to my Bipolar.His application asked for me to only have supervised contact with them.
A 17 month battle ensued resulting in a 10 day hearing in the High Court in the Royal Courts of Justice. Despite hearing evidence from 3 experts in psychiatry and psychology all of whom gave evidence to the Judge that I am perfectly capable of looking after the children, the Judge decided that, because of my Bipolar, I should not be allowed to be the main carer of the children. She ordered that the children should be the subject of a Shared Residency Order ie that their care should be shared between me and their father with them having homes with both of us. Legally, that puts us both on equal footing when it comes to our legal parenting rights. However, the Judge decided that their main carer should be their father on the basis that he doesn’t have the illness and can therefore provide greater stability than I can. He was not put through any psychological or psychiatric assessment to determine whether he was capable, despite the fact that he has been violent to both me and the children. The children’s nanny has had not psychiatric or psychological testing and yet has been allowed to take over their care in preference to me. Their main carer is therefore my husband’s nanny as, the reality is, that he is at work most of the time that he should be there looking after them. He heads up a City law firm litigation department (he’s an ex barrister) and is therefore rarely at home before their bed time.
I was thrown out of our marital home by my Husband who succesfully applied for an Occupation Order, claiming that my presence in the house was causing “significant harm” to the children. The Judge who heard this application was the same judge who heard the Children’s Act custody dispute. She came into court saying that she hadn’t had time to read the papers for the application but that she didn’t need to as it was obvious that my staying at the home would damage the children. She sought to evict me without consideration as to my financial means. I had no capital with which to buy or rent another home until the matrimonial home was sold. My husband was fighting my maintenance claim saying he couldn’t afford to pay me any maintenance out of his £450,000 earnings. My work was not producing enough income to fund a rented property. She gave no consideration for the effect that evicting me from my home was going to have on me and my mental health.
I was given 2 days to pack all my stuff and leave. I had nowhere to go other than to my brother’s house. I have been living there for 18 months in his spare bedroom where me and my three children have to share a bed when they come to stay with me. Yet the Shared Residency Order means that the children are to have HOMES with both me and my husband. I was specifically advised that, under the Matrimonial Homes Act, there would be no inequality between my financial situation for me and the kids when they are with me and those of my husband when the kids are with him.
The reality is stark. I am without my own home at all whilst my husband continues to live in our 7 bedroomed matrimonial home. He has been left with 80% of his salary whilst I have been awarded 20% of his salary as maintenance for me and the children. This maintenance will stop in 5 years time. I have incurred debts of £450,000 which has now bankrupted me given the fall in the housing market. I have no capital left with which to buy a home for the children.
The judge considers all this to be a fair outcome!
My children’s thoughts and feelings:
The children’s thoughts and feelings were simply not taken into account. They did not give direct evidence to the Judge either orally or verbally – a point I discuss further below. They are devastated by the decision and miss me terribly. They do not understand the Judge’s contention that I am not well enough to look after them nor do they agree – they all think that I am a good mother who is perfectly able to parent them and indeed they desperately want me to be parenting them far more regularly. My daughter wants to come and live with me and yet no-one is listening to her; she has resigned herself to the fact that, eventually, she will be able to “vote with her feet” and that eventually her view will count.
They cannot understand why they are not allowed to see their mummy very often and don’t understand why nobody has listened to what they want. They keep telling me that they want to live with me and that they are heartbroken without me. My youngest said “Mummy, there’s no love in my heart when you’re not here with me”. She is regularly having nightmares and is wetting and soiling herself regularly. She is convinced that I no longer love her despite all my assurances that I do. She’s clingy and demands my constant attention when I am with her. Relatives observing her say that she is clearly suffering. My son (8) tells me he is often crying himself to sleep and now talks to me and others through his favourite soft toy. He follows me everywhere, (even into the loo!), not letting me out of his sight. I have nicknamed him “my little shadow”. He cries on the car journey to drop him back to his father, pleading with me not to let him take him away from me. My eldest child, 10 , still asks to sleep in bed with me when she is with me and cuddles me for dear life. She keeps asking when the Court will listen to her views and when she is allowed to “vote with her feet”. She has asked me to get her her own solicitor so that she can be listened to.
They all need their mummy – that much is clear. They love me regardless of my condition and tell me that they don’t believe that I am doing anything wrong to them or harming them in any way. They simply cannot understand it all.
Me and my Bipolar:
I was the children’s main carer for the 9 years leading up to this Judgement, some of this time I was the sole carer at home, some of the time I had nanny help.
I suffer from Bipolar 2 and have therefore never experienced a manic episode. I do not suffer from delusions,nor have I ever been psychotic. I am told that I have the mildest form of Bipolar and it is on the borderline of a diagnosis which is why it went undiagnosed for 16 years!
I have only been in hospital twice, both of which were voluntary admissions – I have never been sectioned. The first admission was for depression, during which time I was diagnosed with depression only. The second time was because the psychiatrist changed his diagnosis to Bipolar and wanted me to be in hospital for the introduction of Lamotrigine and because he was concerned that I might be going hypomanic on the anti-depressants. I was not manic according to me and to the admission notes.
I have never abused the children. I have no substance abuse problems, nor have I ever had any substance abuse problems) and don’t even smoke. I have no criminal record. I have a full, clean driving licence and have never been convicted of any driving offences.
I am fully medication compliant and my condition is fully stable with no relapses since I started on medication 4 years ago. I have been through 2 years of intensive Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (the recommended treatment for Bipolar). During the 6 years leading up to my hospitalisation and diagnosis, I was the children’s main carer and was being their mum without being on any medication or treatment as I hadn’t yet been diagnosed. Yet, I was still managing to look after them. The children were thriving at school with good school reports and the schools reported them to be well-adjusted, highly intelligent, popular, lovely children.
I have experienced 4 depressive episodes (no manic ones) since I was 22 (I’m now in my 40s), each of which followed a major life trauma. I experienced the first during my degree – I still graduated with an honours degree, went through my military training at Sandhurst, became an Army officer and rowed for my university, winning the National Polytechnic rowing regatta, so the depression didn’t hamper my functioning. I experienced my second episode at Law school, but still graduated and became a lawyer. I experienced my 3rd after the birth of my second child, but still carried on parenting my two children (aged 2 and newborn) whilst managing my third pregnancy whilst my son was only 6 months old. During this time, I oversaw the building works in our house and worked part-time.
My fourth episode resulted in my (voluntary) admission to hospital. I had three children in three years, my two year old son developed diabetes, I was working and we had knocked down our house and I was overseeing the rebuilding works. My husband had become physically violent towards me and our marriage was crumbling and high in conflict with a husband who was rarely at home. When he was at home, he was emotionally and psychologically abusive for quite a lot of the time. He was highly critical of my parenting and of my abilities as a wife and housewife – I rarely got anything right in his eyes. I collapsed from the pressure of it all.
I tell you the following about myself only to give you an idea of what I have managed to achieve during my illness when I wasn’t even diagnosed and was on no medication. These achievements did not seem to carry much weight for the Judge and did not convince her that I was able to lead a full, productive life and be competent.
I am a qualified lawyer and still manage to work. I am a regular speaker at conferences, have been a speaker on the Radio, and have had many articles published in both the broadsheets and journals. I am an ex Territorial Army officer, having passed through Sandhurst military academy and was in the TA for over 9 years, both in command roles and in organisational roles. I am a qualified mountain expedition leader, have won sailing races with the Army, ski, run, cycle and have led an expedition team across the Yukon in Canada, leading them through 5 weeks of arduous terrain on a 250 mile trek. I gained my legal qualifications by doing a distance learning course of a law degree whilst working full time.
I have many long-standing friends, all of whom say that I have never exhibited any form of mania, nor any substantial depressive symptoms. None of them could believe that I have been given this diagnosis.
Discrimination, prejudice, ignorance and Human Rights and the Law
I will write separately in detail about the law on the Children’s Act,the Disability Discrimination Act, the Human Rights Act, the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the other pieces of legislation. Being a lawyer I can strive to effect a change in the legislation. This will take a great deal of time and energy but I feel strongly that the law is not serving the interests of the children where a parent suffering from an illness is deemed incapable. The law I discuss here is my understanding and interpretation of it; I may be challenged on this but it is my view currently.
I believe that this whole situation and judgement is as a result of ignorance and a misunderstanding of the complexities of the condition; in particular the fact that there is an entire spectrum of manifestations of the condition from the extremely mild (as in my case) to the extremely severe. There is also an ignorance of the fact that there are two types of Bipolar: Bipolar 1 which is a mix of mania and mild depression compared to Bipolar 2 which is only hypomania but more severe depression. Clearly, the manifestations of these two types of the illness are very different and result in very different sets of behaviours of the individual sufferer and therefore the effect that this has on the family and especially the children.
Discrimination:
I also think that this case falls within the realm of mental health discrimination, prejudice and stigma by the Judge, my exhusband and his witnesses. There is still a high level of prejudice surrounding mental health conditions which is pervasive throughout our society and I aim, through this blog and my legal background and skills (I am a qualified lawyer), to fight it and challenge it through both the court system and the media.
I am fighting this issue as I now know that I am, unfortunately, one of many parents with this condition who is suffering from this kind of prejudice and losing custody of their children as a result. There are now many stories both on this blog and sent to me through my private email, which are heart-rending stories of parents having their children taken away from them as a result of their mental illness. Clearly, some parents are not well and struggle to find the right medication to stabilise their condition, some have substance abuse problems and some have such a severe form of the illness that they would find it very difficult to be a full time parent. However, there are many, many others who have managed to stabilise their condition such that it no longer impacts their day to day life in a debilitating way and these parents should not have their children taken away from them simply because they have a diagnosis of a condition which is not of their making, is not “their attitude, fault or fundamental flaw of personality” but is simply a disease which they are extremely unfortunate to have got.
There are parents with epilepsy, diabetes, cancer, alzheimers, paralysis, Down’s syndrome, Autism or any other illness which can be debilitating either physically hampering the way that they can parent their children or emotionally/psychologically debilitating, yet do these parents have their children taken away from them because they are ill? There are parents who have alcohol and drug problems yet these parents don’t usually have their children taken away from them. Why should people with mental health problems be deemed to be automatically more incapable of parenting their children than these other sufferers?
My son has Type 1 diabetes (a form which is NOT the result of a poor diet), and I witness his extreme fluctuations in mood and functioning. When his blood sugar levels fluctuate, his mood fluctuates: he can become aggressive, irritable, bad-tempered, very fatigued, have headaches, feels nauseus, can’t concentrate, and at times can’t function at all. All this happens on a daily basis and yet how many diabetics have their children taken away from them on the basis that they are “incapable” of looking after their children?
They don’t, because every one would argue that that would be discriminatory and unnecessary. And yet it is allowed to happen to the mentally ill.
The United Nations Convention for the Rights of A Child.
This states clearly that all children have the right to be have their voice heard. Yet the Judge did not hear my children’s opinions at all. They did not give evidence either orally or in writing. They were deemed to be “too young” and yet there is no age stipulation in the legislation. It simply gives guidance that evidence of children will be taken into account if they are deemed to be sufficiently mature enough to understand the issues involved. What does that mean? Who makes that assessment? Who funds the children’s separate legal representation? A CAFCASS officer was the only person who heard what the children had to say.
CAFCASS: The Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service
Apparently, the Court case was all about what was in the best interests of the children. Yet my children were interviewed by CAFCASS on only 1 occasion for approximately 50 minutes. They gave evidence to the CAFCASS officer that they want their mummy. My youngest daughter told CAFCASS that she wanted to live with me, my son said he wanted to live with both of us and my eldest daughter said she wanted to live with me but see a lot of her father. CAFCASS did not report this properly and there is no transcript taken of the interview so I cannot prove what I heard the children say when I was in the room with them when they said it. It is my word against the CAFCASS officer’s report.
The CAFCASS report was, in the judge’s own words “appalling” and highly deficient in its thoroughness and findings yet the proceedings continued, despite the fact that the Report was the only truly objective evidence on what the children wanted. The judge told the CAFCASS officer that it was the most depressing example of how badly a CAFCASS investigation could go, yet it was still admitted as evidence. He didn’t even interview the schools or my new partner or come to the home to see if the allegations of my disgusting housewifery were true.
The Judge, accountability and Appeals
Astonishingly, a Judge is exempt from the provisions of the Disability Discrimination Act when acting in their judicial capacity! I simply do not understand why a Judge should be exempt from being held to be potentially discriminatory and held accountable for that bias. I am told also that I cannot appeal this decision as there are only 2 grounds for appeal:
1. That the Judge misapplied the law: well, she didn’t because the Children’s Act is entirely silent on the point of how a Judge should assess a parent’s capability or indeed a parent suffering with mental health issues.
2. That the Judge exercised her “judicial discretion” in such a way that no other judge would have exercised it in that way!. Clearly, an individual’s subjective discretion is such a nebulous concept that it is extremely difficult to criticise it. I was also advised that judges very rarely criticise another judge’s exercise of this judicial discretion. I find this an extraordinary protection to afford judges.
You also have to have leave to appeal and this leave has to be sought from the Judge herself. In other words, the judge who made the decision that you wish to appeal, has to agree that you can appeal it! She has reserved the case to herself too, which means that if I wish to bring a fresh application under the Children’s Act for the residency issue to be re-evaluated, I will get the same Judge!
I simply fail to see how this is justice or how it prevents miscarriages of justice from happening as there seems to be little room for challenging the decisions of the judges.
Human Rights
There are also Human Rights issues in all of this. There has, in my view, been a breach of various articles in the Human Rights Act including a breach of privacy, a breach of my right to a family life and a unfair trial.
Breach of privacy:
I was ordered to make a full disclosure of ALL my medical notes, both in patient and out patient and regardless of whether they pertained to my condition. They were also allowed to see ALL my psychology session notes. My computer was gone through by my husband as were all my mobile phone calls and texts and he was permitted to give evidence on the findings of his investigations. He had me followed by a private investigator.
Right to a fair trail
Whilst all of my medical history was obtained and given in evidence, none of his medical notes had to be disclosed, nor his notes from his psychology sessions that he had been having. No medical reports were conducted on him. This meant that the Judge heard all about my medical history and nothing about his.
I spent a week listening to my medical notes being taken to pieces by his barrister: excerpts from my psychology sessions, from my psychiatric assessments, from my previous medical history.I was absolutely destroyed as a person and as a mother by my husband, his witnesses and his barrister. I spent an entire week not being allowed to speak at all but having to listen to my exhusband’s barrister ask his witnesses to explain certain behaviours and thoughts and emotions that I had as though I was completely invisible and as though they were able to understand what was going on in my head. It was deeply humiliating and degrading and very largely untrue and exaggerated. I then endured 3 days of cross-examination by a barrister who bullied and humiliated and taunted me in the most disgraceful manner about my illness, my behaviour and my emotional and psychological state. His entire aim was to make me seem like a complete danger to myself, to my children, to claim that I had a fundamental personality disorder despite having been told by the experts that I did not suffer from any personality disorder. My whole inside of my mind was taken to pieces by people who knew nothing about my illness and yet claimed that they “knew” me well enough to give evidence about my condition.
My husband’s legal team knew that the only way to ‘convince the Judge that I was the incapable, “mad” wife and mother that he said I was, was to try to focus on the period running up to and following on from my hospital admission and to assert that this was the norm. This he did with devastating success. He was able to focus the Judges attention away from all the years of my parenting prior to admission (ie 6 years) and only focus on the 4 months leading up to my admission and the 12 months following it.
I asked my legal team to include all his own bad behaviour but I was advised that we shouldn’t “sink to his level”.His violence towards me resulted in the police being called out to our home, yet no police records were brought into the trial. His drug taking in the past was not brought up, nor was his visits to places he shouldn’t have been visiting. None of this was considered important in terms of assessing his own personality and fitness to parent.
The witnesses were allowed to give evidence which was outside their realm of expertise ie they were not psychiatrists or psychologists and yet they were allowed to give evidence on my state of mind, on my personality and behaviour and were allowed to contend that I was mentally ill and that I had a personality disorder.
Law on expert evidence
The law on evidence is usually that no witness is allowed to give “expert evidence” ie evidence which should only be given by an expert in their field. So, for example, in a hearing on negligence of a construction of a building, a lay person cannot give evidence on whether or not the building had been constructed properly or not as they are not experts in construction. Yet, in a case involving Bipolar, the witnesses were allowed to give evidence on my state of mind, on my emotional background and on my thoughts. The Judge stated in her Judgement that the evidence of my neighbour was “particularly persuasive” yet my neighbour knows nothing about my condition.
This was therefore not a fair trial in my view. There was a huge disadvantage to me and none to him as he did not undergo any of the same scrutiny into his personality, his thoughts, behaviours etc yet mine were gone through in minute detail.
The Children’s Act – guidance on mentally ill parents
The Children’s Act is totally silent on the issue of parent’s with mental health conditions. It gives no guidance whatsoever to either the Judge or to CAFCASS on how to assess a parent’s capabilities when they are suffering from a mental health problem.
The Judge is given the sole responsibility for assessing any evidence. This is despite the fact that the Judge has no psychiatric or psychology training. They are given the jurisdiction to decide on issues which are beyond their training and experience. Neither are they qualified in child psychology yet they are allowed to adjudicate on the effects of a particular parent’s illness on a child.
There is no panel of judges and experts; simply one judge.
How is this a “fair trial” and how is it justice?
“Personality v symptoms”
Because many of the symptoms of the illness can be mistaken for inherent personality traits, this is the main barrier to people being able to see the person for who they are rather than as a cluster of mistaken personality traits. The fatigue associated with depression is perceived as “laziness”, the lack of communication as “being anti-social”, the anxiety as being “over-sensitive” etc.
The mainstay of therapy for Bipolar consists of helping the sufferer develop “coping strategies” to stave off depression and minimise stress. Each sufferer has their own “triggers” ie stimuli, which will bring on either an episode of depression or an episode of mania/hypomania. During my therapy, I recognised that stress was a major trigger for me so I learnt to avoid taking on too much eg too much work, too much housework, too much organising social activities etc. I also learnt that a coping mechanism for stress was to go running, listen to music and do other pleasurable activities to bring balance back into my life.
During my recovery from my admission to hospital with depression, I was advised to “put my recovery first” for a while. This was interpretated by my husband and others as me being “selfish”, “self-absorbed” and not interested in being a wife and mother. I was “lazy”. On the one hand I was being advised by my medical team to put my recovery as the highest priority, on the other hand I was being criticised roundly by my husband and others for being “selfish” and “lazy”. This contradiction was causing even further stress and was making my recovery harder. To have a husband who says, on the one hand that he understood and supported me and yet was highly critical when I implemented my coping strategies, was very difficult to cope with.
Noise is another trigger for me and London is extremely noisy and crowded. I therefore sought to regularly escape from the noise and crowds and travelled down to the seaside to get away. This was considered “unnecessary”, “self indulgent” “putting my own needs before my children’s”, “irresponsible”. The Judge decided that my reasons for doing this were “disingenous – as it was really for my socialising”. Yet this need to escape the noise and stress of my town was highlighted as a positive coping strategy by my psychologist.
All these symptoms and coping strategies were misinterpreted and I was condemned as a result.
My Bipolar Partner
My new partner has Bipolar 2 – a mild form like mine with no mania, delusions or psychosis but depressive episodes and anxiety. We met in hospital and formed a close bond as a result of our mutual understanding and empathy of our respective suffering and struggles to come to terms with our condition. He was diagnosed at the same time as me and he and I were the only people we each knew with the condition. We relied on each other during the first year of diagnosis to support, inform and listen to each other. He was discharged after the first week of my admission yet he came back to visit me, take me for walks and to the cinema, send me encouraging texts and so on. My husband visited me twice during my 5 weeks of hospitalisation, saying that he was “too busy” looking after the children and working to find the time to come and visit me. Not surprisingly, I came to rely increasingly on my new found fellow sufferer for support rather than my husband. After a year, I decided I wanted to leave my husband and be with someone who understood me and my condition and be fully accepting of the limitations it might impose on me.
My husband immediately issued proceedings against my new partner for a Prohibited Steps Order ie an application to the Court to prohibit my partner from seeing the children claiming that he was a danger to himself and a potential danger to the children. No supporting evidence was submitted with this application – it was based purely on my husband’s contention. This application was in place for 17 months before Judgement was handed down by the Judge.
My partner was prevented from seeing the children for this entire time simply based on my exhusband’s assertion that my partner had Bipolar and therefore shouldn’t be exposed to the children. He has no criminal record, no alcohol or drug abuse and has never hurt or threatened the children in any way. But he was still not allowed to see them until the Judge ruled that he could. Unlike criminal law “innocent until proved guilty”, in these proceedings my partner was “ill and dangerous, until proved otherwise”. This is despite the fact that the children adore him and kept asking why they couldn’t see him.
He went through hell in those 17 months; having been made a party to the proceedings he was required to be a witness and therefore be interviewed by my lawyer and prepare witness statements. He had to be examined by a psychiatrist to prepare an expert witness report, he was in the witness box for 2 days and his medical notes were trawled through in court. Unsurprisingly, he found this deeply humiliating, insulting and degrading. My husband’s barrister did everything he possibly could to depict him as unstable and incapable of being a parent.
When the Judge did hear the application, she threw it out on the basis that it was unfounded. Yet, during this 18 month period awaiting judgement, my partner was forbidden to see the children. This also meant that he was brought to trial where full disclosure of his own medical notes were ordered and he was cross examined for 2 days. He was again bullied and humiliated by the barrister cross examining him, and being told repeatedly that he was “unstable” and clearly not capable of parenting.
This was also used as a reason for my children not coming to live with me: the two of us together are clearly unable to care for children, according to the judge. But why?
- Neither of us has a criminal record.
- Neither of us has a drug or alcohol problem and never have had.
- Neither of us have abused the children in any way, nor threatened them.
Yet we are considered to not be capable of looking after the children, based on our mental health condition.
Kids need mums:
The vast majority of people believe that children need their mothers and not just on an ad hoc basis, but on a regular one with a great deal of love, nurturing and understanding of their needs on the mother’s part. The mother-child bond is fundamental, deep and irreplaceable. All the psychological studies into the importance of the role of the mother bears testament to my contentions. My children desperately want me; they are unutterably sad that I am forced to see them so rarely and are emotionally and psychologically suffering as a result.
This blog is my attempt to highlight that all parents, regardless of their illness, are needed by their children and that discrimination, ignorance, stigma and a lack of empathy is are all in the way of blocking those children from their parents.
Any comments, or offers of support would be greatly appreciated.
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My prayers are with you. I hear your plight, I understand your hurdles and wish there was a rational solution to the underlying problems which prevail in this country.
Well, it is rather interesting to view the perspectives of those who have posted. A few observations of such..
I wonder how many have actually experienced mental illess or indeed, have done so with no awareness of recognition that actually their own behaviour would be potentially deemed ”mentally ill”………….for instance, the somewhat venomous comments posted by some do seem to indicate quite overtly at least, an intrinsic propensity towards irrational hated, prejudice and discrimination…I do wonder if those posting such sweeping statements have any realisation of how they may be perceived exhibiting such ”behaviours” with ironically (for them) are traits of many forms of mental illess?
Taboo – well we certainly love to hate as a society in general don’t we? I do wonder if it is somewhat more comfortable to always feel that one may discharge responsibility for ones own actions, behaviours, mistakes (does anyone recall the parabol with regards to casts the first stone? ….) ….it does also occur to me that the propensity to divert responsibilty to another more ”comfortable” (and by comfortable I imply not ones self) source is a well known trait of mental illess. Does this in any way pose the question that in fact, to some extent or another we are all mentally ill – I do challenge anyone to ”prove” beyond resonable doubt (which is apparently the expectation of a court – & they certainly seemed to feel that the case constructed against Marie ”proved” her incapacity” to this extent) – that they are infact a person with no blemish that may in some form impact/hinder/scare ect a child – or anyone for that matter – I do welcome any person who has responded to this blog to put forward their case of why they (and not ”mentally ill” persons) co-exist within humanity with nothing but positive influence on their surroundings?
Society is formed upon behaviours, impacts, interactions, uncontrollable elements – the actual reality of this (should one approach this from what I would personally deem a rational perspective…..feel free to disagree!) is that no one on earth exists without knowingly or unwittingly perpertually creating ”impact” on others. This is a fact of human interaction at its very primal level.
The law, constructed to protect, in my mind does not always. This statement relates to all aspects of law. I believe that often the ”justice” sought in law is generally questioned at a time in which the individual concerned is directly impacted by the judgement. Society is by nature – selfish. Perhaps the question here (which I believe, if my interpretation of Marie’s blog is accurate) is the question the viability of a law that here (as in many case histories of similar issues – often to greater and lesser extents) have pronouned the same ”judgement” and removed the rights of one or another or indeed both parents.
Has the questions been address of perhaps how the outcome is (you may not feel this relevant at this stage – but pls read on) impacted by factors other than just Marie’s mental illness? hypothetically, had Marie been supported by a loving, caring, accepting husband who felt that he wanted to support his wife in her difficulties – would the outcome have been different? So perhaps if Marie had not been isolated within her our marriage and family unit (do you see the parrallel here?) then the outcome of her ability to ”manage” or be perceived to manage would have be potentially different. I appreciate this is very much by the by here, however, I illustrate that the situation was made more difficult (and this applies to any situation of any sort anyone is dealing with – not just mental illness).
Who can possibly believe that a man who is willing to beat his wife is incapable of beating his children ……….unless of course you apply the same rationale the court applies in such cases – if Marie was ”unstable” – she was wholly unstable – which therefore dictates that her husband either beats or does not – it is too absolute a conclusion – no one can say with any certainty that Marie’s husband would NEVER harm his children – he has shown himself capable to harm. And therefore I argue why is he deemed more appropriate to raise three children – is beating not considered ”damaging” to a child? If you apply the same rules – same logic – Marie’s incapacity (although I might add that I am still struggling for any evidence of such incapacity other than assumed……) could not also be deemed absolute…..
Each case should be examined upon individual circumstances. Each case looked at for its idiosyncrasies to be evaluated in a manner that would result in a judgement based on anything other than gross assumptions and the ability of a judge to apply their discretion within the realms of how much power they can excercise.
The reality is far from the truth. The reality is one of sweeping generalisation based on statistical evidence that is supported by often inadequate evidence and flawed testimony. That is then used to form a conclusion that can only ever be flawed at best. The fact here is that the approach is wrong, the process is wrong, the law is wrong. Until this is changed, millions of wives, husbands, and most importantly children will suffer. Marie – I applaud you for your battle, your will to fight on and your evident concern for your children to your own personal detriment. I cannot think of better qualities to form the basis of a mother.
Children should be protected, but let us consider what they should be protected from – society and its prejudice ? deprivation of their mother due to statistical evidence and a flawed but persuasive legal argument. Children should be given all they can have, not deprived on the off chance of maybe. Which frankly we all run this risk of – what if one day you faced some adversity in your life, unsupported – you may well find yourself behaving in a way that you do not even imagine. Some, very few infact – mental illness are purely down to chemical imbalance (such as schizoprenia etc) and these cases should be scrutinised to establish the SAFETY of the child, as every case should be scrutinised – however based upon FACTS not assumptions.
I would like to state also that this statement is not intended to approach the ”human” aspect of Marie’s situation as it diverts from the purpose of my post. However, that said my empathy lies with her and her children – whose lives have now been irreparable destroyed by one man’s pursuit of ”justice”. I am not even surprised at some of the comments here as they sadly substanciate my statements on prejudice, avoidance, the endemic nature of many people today to avoid looking within and to satisfy their need to blame as it makes it easier to ignore there faults. The social deprivation of society today is derived in a great part from this deplorable attitude of many today – sadly we now live in a society were decency, responsibilty is devoid in most and the bad out weighs the good.
This is sad mom who are ill dads who are ill and society think it is willful behavior!!
Hi,
I just found out that my ex’s girlfriend is bipolar and it not taking her medicine. As of yesterday he decided to end it with her because of her ongoing habits of having guys texted her, going out all night with god knows who and finding her in the back seat of a car with another man having sex. My ex has our son on Thursday through Saturday and at the time when him and his girlfriend were together she would watch my son sometimes….not anymore!!! I can tell you that. I am sorry, but if you are bi polar and have been diagnosed bipolar you are putting your kids at risk and you are putting my son at risk. If they get back together you can be sure I will be going to court and asking the judge to not allow his girlfriend to have alone time with my son since she cannot even have enough respect for herself tostay on her meds and stay out of every other mans bed! Maybe if she were taking her meds and not sleeping around then I would have a different opion of her. Now I understand why it has been nothing by caos with her for the past four years since they have been together.
Sharon,
Thank you so much for this comment; it is really heartening and encouraging to hear your story. It’s made a huge difference to me to hear that you and your mum are so close and that you were able to work together with your mum on gaining understanding and intimacy. I took courage from your post and took my eldest daughter to a conference on mental health issues at which I was speaking so that she could form an understanding and see that her mum wasn’t the only person who has a condition so that it can be “normalised” for her. She met lots of other highly functioning individuals who were there who were also sufferers. I felt it was important that she could see me as part of a larger group of people who were all trying to gain insight, support and courage to fight the stigma and bring greater awareness and understanding to the public. She gave me a big hug as we went to bed that night and has been very affectionate and close since then, often coming up to me out of the blue and hugging me and telling me how much she loves me. I really think it helped her.
I have a close bond with my three children thankfully and attribute it in large part to the fact that I ensure that they come above everything else in my life so that they know that I am always there for them. We also talk about my condition and my son’s diabetes openly and I point out to them all the other illnesses that people suffer from and how it affects these people’s ability to function as a family. We discuss all sorts of discrimination and stigma, not just about mental health but in all walks of life and this helps them understand why they are not living with me full time.
Thank you so much for your encouragement. I am a member of an organisation called “Stand to Reason” which is raising awareness about mental health and is fighting stigma and prejudice. Many people came to the conference including Alastair Darling (MP) and the Shadow Minister for Health amongst others. They all recognise that mental health awareness is the last area to be battled in terms of discrimination and are determined to fight it. Hopefully, blogs like mine will no longer be necessary in a few years time.
Best wishes to you and your mum and thanks once again for your support.
I am so outraged and upset by some of the comments left on here…. complete ignorance and simple mindedness…Marie, I think you’ve snubbed those comments by tom, glory and truth very well, I believe there the type of people who, sadly, are unlikely change their minds.
I’d just like to let you know that my mother brought me up as a single parent with bipolar disorder. She was diagnosed when I was three after suffering from a mental breakdown. There were times when I didn’t understand her and what was happening and we would argue. Over time though I learned to understand her condition. Now we can laugh about it together, we both understand her bipolar disorder and that helps.
Many people have left negative comments on here about people with bi-polar, but did you ever think it’s the person that’s bad and the bi-polar is just the easier thing to blame. My mother and I have a great relationship and a strong bond as mother and daughter. I understand that support from other people really helps, I know my mum needs me and I need her. She is the only person I know I can 100% trust and rely on. It frustrates me now though when I come into contact with people who don’t understand her and are inpatient or rude to her.
Marie I feel so much for you, and your children, I really hope it turns out to be a happy ending for you. I still can’t really believe your story; it seems so unjust to be true. All I can say is keep on fighting your case and DON’T give up. You are achieving something all the time by creating awareness and prividing others with a place of understanding.
To Glory. I divorced my bipolar spouse after 9 years , he had a baby w someone else while i was pregnant, I did not even know he was Bipolar at that time, this is pretty recent,. for the welfare of my son I decided it was best to leave him. He has had drinking issues, but was a good husband for many years. Children deserve to have parents, even if they are bipolar (it’s their choosing to be bipolar!!!) my son will always have a relationship with his father as long as his safety is not compromised, his father adores him and has the right to see him. Only if you have a loved one with bipolar can you really see how it can ruin lives. However they need support from parents, siblings, their children, and yes their exes. It must be easy for you to point fingers, but remember it must not be easy for them to have that confusion in their head, many do not even get diagnosed for years., Please be a little more compassionate before you post such nasty comments.
Hi Glory,
Thanks for your thoughts. I’m clearly interested in your perceptions, hence I’m posting your comment.
There are 2 comments on your thoughts:
1. You state that I “have demonstrated that I cannot even take care of myself”. What makes you think that? Who are you comparing me to? What criteria do you apply when you judge whether someone is “taking care of themselves” or “taking care of their children”. Send me a checklist and I will tell you whether I can tick any of the boxes.
2. “You are lucky you get to see your children at all.” This begs the question: whose children are they? They are my children, not yours, not the judges, not society’s, not anyone else’s to take away. It is not for you to determine whether I am “lucky” to see my children.
I ask you what I have done that is so wrong that the likes of you think you know me and my children well enough to make a judgement that is so damning and profound in its ignorance?
Are you saying that no-one with Bipolar should be “allowed” to look after their own children?
“They lie, manipulate and are aggressive…etc, etc” Are you saying that ALL people with Bipolar do these things?
Are you saying that no other person you know ever lies, manipulates or gets aggressive or are you saying that these traits are only ever shown by people suffering with Bipolar?
“They hurt their children emotionally.” What is it precisely that you feel that someone with Bipolar does to hurt their children emotionally?
Do parents without Bipolar hurt their children emotionally in any way?
If not, what is it that people who have Bipolar do that is unique to Bipolar that ends up hurting their children in a way that no other parent does?
“My neighbour is Bipolar”. That’s interesting. I thought people “suffer from a condition called Bipolar” rather in the same way that people who have heart problems suffer from heart problems. Would you state: “My neighbour is heart problems”? or “My neighbour is cystic fibrosis” or My neighbour is cancer”? Or would you say “My neighbour has heart problems?”
This is a classic way of discriminating against people and you have proved my point entirely. People such as yourself would describe those people in society who you wish to reject in the following way:
“My neighbour is a leper” – not “my neighbour suffers from leprosy”
“My neighbour is black/is a nigger/is a coon/etc” – not my neighbour is a person regardless of the colour of their skin.
“My neighbour is a cripple” – my neighbour has a physical disability which means that they are wheel chair bound.
etc, etc.
People with Bipolar have a condition – it is not their defining point.
Hundreds of thousands of people have Bipolar. Are we all lumped together in your mind in a group of lying, manipulating, aggressive people who can’t look after ourselves and who are “lucky” to keep their children.
Do you say the same about people who have alcohol problems, people with drug problems, people with anti-social behaviour problems, people who kill/rape/torture/ strangers in the street, people who have sex with children, people who attack old age pensioners, people who rape children etc.
Do these people “lie, manipulate, be aggressive”. Do these people have children? Do these people “look after themselves”?
I think, Glory, you are the classic case of a person who discriminates against people with mental health problems and it’s people such as yourself that need to look more closely at their own personality, behaviour, parenting and, as Jesus says in the bible: “take the plank out of your own eye before you pick the splinter out of someone elses.”
Even people diagnosed with just Bipolar II disorder are mean and nasty. Their thoughts go off on tangents and they cannot adequately raise children by themselves. They lie, manipulate, and are aggressive when someone doesn’t do exactly what they want. They cause great danger and hurt their children emotionally.
Face it lady, you have demonstrated you cannot even take care of yourself let alone your children. You are Bipolar, accept your limitations and stop complaining about being discriminated against. My neighbor is bipolar and raised her own children after a divorce. HER CHILDREN will let her be around her grandchildren unsupervised. They understand the pain she caused and the dangers they were put in. You are lucky you get to see your children at all.
Hi Tom, thanks for taking time to respond. I agree with you that the court has a repsonsiblity to ensure that any parent is suitable to look after their children. You have chosen to cite the example of a paranoized schizophrenic – ie the most extreme case of mental ill health, as a person who should not be able to ruin little people’s lives. Likewise I assume you would agree that an alcoholic or a drug abuser, should also not be able to ruin little people’s lives and yet these alcoholics and drug abusers do so daily and on a frightenly large scale in our society.
I agree that is is vital that the children’s welfare is put before the welfare of the mother as they have done in my case – frankly the court has not considered my welfare at all. It is irrelevant to them and they made that clear, despite the clear legal guidelines on taking into account the parent’s vulnerabiliites in addition to those of the children.
Yes, I do think a paranoid schizophrenic can claim they’ve been discriminated against if the only reason they have been told that they cannot look after their children is because they suffer from their illness; their illness is not their fault. However, clearly there would be a detailed assessment by a psychiatrist to determine whether that person’s condition is sufficiently well managed, medicated and controlled. If, in the view of a treating psychiatrist, the condition is not under control, then the court would be right to rule that the children would not be best looked after by that parent.
If that paranoid schizophrenic’s condition was well managed, medicated and under control but the courts still chose not to allow that parent to parent, would you say that was discrimination or not?
How would that parents ability to parent be assessed in light of their condition or are you suggesting that there should be a blanket ban on any mentally ill parent being able to parent?
YOur feedback is welcome.
Court are biased against mentally ill people? Should a paranoid schitzophrenic be able to claim that (s)he is discriminated against because the courts won’t let him/her to ruin little people’s lives?
I’m sorry – this is like saying that IQ tests are biased against the stupid. And hen the courts make the choice, they sometimes DO consider the welfare of the children BEFORE the welfare of the mother (as they’ve done in your case). I wish there were more judges like the one in this case.
I don’t care about discrimination. Bipolar illness is an illness that pollutes and leaves of wake of destruction behind you. Accept that you’re unfit to function in society and completely unfit to act as a mother. You’re sick. Deal with it.
Oh Pheonix! I’m so glad that you’ve written in. I’m really beginning to seriously wonder whether I have also been diagnosed. Since leaving my husband last April, I have had very few, if any, symptoms of this supposed illness. I am so, so delighted to hear the outcome of your own particular case and admire you for your determination, courage and stamina in going back to court again and again.
I think that both parents should have to release their medical records if one has to. There shouldn’t be scope for one parent to take advantage of the disclosure of one set of medical records and the other parent not to have the same opportunity to go through the other’s records.
Many, many people, including my psychiatrist, my psychologist and the two independent psychiatrists think that my husband has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and/or a narcassistic personality disorder. Yet the Judge has not ordered his psychology or medical notes or to have him assessed by an expert.
I think I will follow suit and ask the Judge to order his notes too…..
Many thanks and WELL DONE!!!!!
I just wanted to say I was misdiagnosed as Bi polar on the basis of my little ones biological father. After many many court hearings, reports and Cafcass saying I was “unfit” the JUDGE finally ordered HIS medical records…and Voilla….he was the diagnosed SOCIOPATH/PSYCHOPATH and suddenly he handed me full residency!
I would suggest now being on medication and treatment for PTSD – a condition I have because of him – to always SEEK his medical records out – You may have the shock of your life – like me!!!
Good Luck